Turning Pain Into Purpose

In this episode of Unstoppable Stories, host Nathan James is joined by Amanda Clark, a mental health advocate and UMGC alumna, to share her powerful journey of resilience and transformation. Amanda opens up about overcoming immense pain and hardship, finding the inner strength to change her life for herself and her children.
She discusses how therapy and a focus on mental health became key to her growth during life鈥檚 toughest moments and how her determination to be a role model for her kids fueled her pursuit of a bachelor's degree. Her story is a testament to the power of perseverance鈥攑roving that no matter your past, you have the strength to build a bright and fulfilling future.
Episode Information
Amanda Clark:
It doesn't have to look the same way as everybody else, because I am supposed to meet my own expectations, not someone else's expectations. So if I set my expectations as high as I can, then that's what I'm working towards and I have the strength already. I don't have to go find it somewhere. I don't need someone else to give it to me. I just need to find the resources. I need to find the drive. And as long as you have whatever light that fire inside you. Then you can just go for it. Not what's the worst that can happen, but what's the best that can happen?
Intro:
Welcome to the UMGC podcast, unstoppable Stories with your host, Nathan James.
Nathan James:
Hello everyone. Yep, it's Nathan and I'm glad. Thank you for joining us. I'm glad to have you here. I am here with Amanda Clark, uh, who is a UMGC graduate and a strong mental health advocate. Amanda, thank you for being on with us today.
Amanda Clark:
Sure. Thank you for having me.
Nathan James:
So, tell us a little bit about, um, what it was like for you growing up and, um, also maybe a little bit about how you saw potentially going to college. Growing up.
Amanda Clark:
Growing up, um, my childhood was a little chaotic. Um. My parents didn't really get along. I lived in a, um, very wealthy, um, area, um, but our family was not. That wealthy. So my parents tried to keep everything together to keep us in like good school systems, things like that. But um, growing up it was just a very, um, elementary, middle school timeframe. I was just trying to find ways that I could, um, really occupy my mind and kind of stay out of the middle of what was going on at home. Um, and then high school. Um, I just kind of decided that, you know, I could go find attention elsewhere. Um, so dealing with my struggles, I just kind, um, ended up taking a little bit of a difficult path from there. Um, but it, it wasn't easy. Um, I, going to school was a lot of kids, um, that. Got cars and cell phones as soon as they, um, came out. And my family struggled a little bit more with that. Um, and then I was also still in school when my parents divorced and my mom had to navigate trying to keep us in, in that county. Um, so that was also difficult too.
Nathan James:
Wow. Wow. Now, uh, I mean, I can only imagine. What it took to be able to focus right the way that you needed to. Um, and yet you were still motivated, right? Even to move forward with your education, was that. Something you felt like you were being told to do, or was it more of an internal voice that said, you've gotta do this?
Amanda Clark:
I didn't have that motivation when I was a teenager, so I think through the end of middle school and maybe the first year of high school or so, um, I was still doing a great job keeping up with everything, you know, trying to. Be the good kid, I guess. And then I kind of felt like I was in the background and wasn't really like a part of what was going on at home, whether it was good or bad. So I kind of decided just to forget about school and go hang out with people who could stay out at night and get into trouble and that sort of thing. Um, I actually don't remember having any conversation with either of my parents when I was in high school about college. It just wasn't something we talked about. I didn't take the SATs, I didn't apply to any colleges. Um, and then I actually ended up, uh, dropping out of high school, um, um, a month or two before my high school graduation.
Nathan James:
Yeah. Yeah. So close. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so you almost get to that finish line. You end up dropping out. I mean, in your mind at that time, did you have like your a dream job or an idea of how you saw your life playing out long term at that time?
Amanda Clark:
So initially I wanted to be a teacher. I. And I loved mathematics, so I wanted to be a math teacher for elementary school. But once I stopped really focusing and putting all my motivation into school, um, then I kind of got that mentality that some teenagers get where you know everything and you don't need anyone to tell you what to do. So that's pretty much what led me to like the, oh, you know, when I turn 18 I can sign myself out of school and then I'll be on my own. I can make my own rules and do my own stuff. You know, thinking I knew everything. It was pretty much immediately after I turned 18 that against everyone's advice I signed myself out of, out of high school. And then, um. I think I actually ended up a week or two later being arrested, uh, when I was in trouble. And a few weeks after that, I actually found out I was pregnant, uh, with my first child. So, wow.
Nathan James:
So back to back, that
Amanda Clark:
That was a pivotal, a very pivotal moment, um, for my life. Probably where my motivation started, um, to do better and be better.
Nathan James:
That sounds like a, like a wake up call. Almost A double wake up call. Go into that more please. Like, um, how did that serve as a wake up call for you? What was it that the, was the turning point in your mind where you said, okay, I gotta, I gotta get this together.
Amanda Clark:
Um, I think. I think growing up I just, I struggled so much with, um, my confidence and my self-esteem and really like, um, caring about myself and, and having that motivation for me as an individual. Um, that all changes, you know, once you find out you're gonna be a parent and all of a sudden it's, you know, I had just quit school. I had just gotten arrested. Um, and then I find out I'm pregnant and I'm like, this cannot be the kind of parent I am for my child. Like, I have to be better. I have to, you know, break this cycle of just leaning on, um, what's going wrong in my life and using that as a reason to not, you know, succeed. So, uh, while I was pregnant, I signed up to get my GED. And, um, have for 20 years told the story that I was nine months pregnant and walked in to take the second half of my GED test. Um, and the instructor said, um, how far along are you? And I said, well, I'm going into the hospital today to have my baby. Um, don't worry.
My mom said if my water breaks, I can still finish my test. Um, and his face was priceless. Um, so that was really. Um, life changing to be. I was 17 at the time when I found out I was pregnant. I was 18 when I had my son. Um, I had my son in November of 2004, and then, um, two months after that, um, his father passed away suddenly. So not only was I a new teen mom, um, I was also kind of thrust into single parenthood, um, at 18.
Nathan James:
So that's a lot, uh, to wrap the, the mind around, um, dealing with loss, um, as you're raising your child, as a, as a single parent at this point. Correct? Yes. Um, yeah. Yeah. With all of that happening, at what point did you decide, okay, I'm going to really go to school, right, and I'm gonna take these steps towards whatever your career goals were at that time.
Amanda Clark:
Um, so at that time, um, after my son's father had passed away, um, and, you know, I had my, my GED, um, that's when I had the thought process that, you know, I, I would love to pursue teaching. Um, but teaching wouldn't really allow me to take care of, of my child as a single parent, um, financially. So I had to set that aside. And that's when, um, I enrolled, um, shortly after EW, because it was still when he was younger. Um, I enrolled to do my associates in accounting so that way I could try to get into some sort of field, uh, where I would be able to provide for him financially because being that his father was so young, um. Not getting into, into too much detail, but with social security benefits, you get out kind of what you pay in. And people who are 20 years old aren't really thinking, if I have a child and I pass away, are they taken care of? So there weren't a lot of benefits to help with an infant. And being so young myself, I needed to find kind of the, the trick to go get into the workforce. Make money so I could provide for him and, you know, ha give him a better opportunity, a better life than, than I had.
Nathan James:
Yeah. So that's a balancing act. So you're going to school, what was that like going to school while raising your child as a single parent?
Amanda Clark:
That was, that was pretty hectic. Um, at the time I had also, I was also in a relationship, uh, where my, um. Significant other had a child that was the same age as my son, which was really helpful in a way because it was like instant twins. And I got to focus a lot on what being a mom was like and learn that I, you know, I loved it. Um, as much as I was judged for being a younger mom, it just really fueled me to work harder to prove. Everybody wrong. And it was more of a like, mom during the day, put the kids to sleep and get online to do schoolwork. Um, and that's the same, same way it was, um, with my bachelor's that I just finished in 2023. So CO shut everything down. My calendar was empty. I needed something to stay busy. So I was like, Hey, let's go back to school. So then with, you know, three kids and then four kids. Whole bunch of dogs at home working full time. Um, a lot of late nights hiding in the upstairs bedroom, trying to finish my, my school assignments for that. But then I, I was able to finish up actually, uh, within a month or two of when my son graduated high school and got ready to go to college himself. So that was a huge moment for me.
Nathan James:
How about that? Look at the timing. Okay. At one point you were taking classes while driving cross country during COVID. True story. Yes.
Amanda Clark:
Yes. True story. Um, yes. I did 黑料社区 classes from a yurt in the Arizona desert. Listening to like coyotes yell in the background. Um, I always wanted to go on a cross country road trip. And, um, my boyfriend at the time entertained the idea when COVID shut everything down. I said, we can't be cooped up in the house. The kids can do, you know, learning on the road. Um, we're not really allowed to go anywhere else. We'll be kind of on our own. I. So we packed up, um, two of the kids, all their schoolwork, um, and the two of us grownups, and we drove almost all the way across the mid us. Um, we went out to Utah and then came up north. We were gone, um, two, two weeks. Uh, we were in the car over a hundred hours. I think we went over 6,000 miles and somehow I was able to do coding classes along the way, which. If you ask me how, I have no idea.
Nathan James:
Yeah, superhero. You're a superhero.
Amanda Clark:
I can ate already, but I specifically remember like asking my son, can you help me with this coding? I don't understand it. And like, that's his thing. And I don't know, we were somewhere in, in Missouri or something along the way, so, yeah. Yeah. And it was quite challenging because I have never experienced the time changes like that. Um, so turning in assignments, you know, I had to be really careful about. What time my assignments were due, where I was gonna be, when I was gonna have wifi, if it was gonna stay, you know, hooked up to wifi.
Nathan James:
Yeah, I mean that's an unpredictable study environment. I mean, a very exciting studying environment. Oh wow. I mean, talk about studying what an adventure, uh, that all is to handle at one time, so, okay. And I also like that. You could almost involve your family in the education journey for as well, right? Like your son being able to have this expertise in it and giving you tips along the way. That sounds like that was something that could even bring the family even together. Do you feel like even going to school had that effect on your family, them being able to see you go to school? Maybe being inspired by that
Amanda Clark:
Since I became a parent, um, you know, starting with my son and then continuing with my daughters, I really wanted to make sure that, um, the narrative for school was something that we always talked about. For me, it was important, you know, not to say you have to do this, but just to have that encouragement and the support, like you can do, you already have all of the strengths in you to do what you wanna do. You just have to like believe in yourself and then go. It's the, you know, your desire for success has to be greater than your fear of failure, and that's really the drive. That got me to where I am today and having my kids, I mean now I, I work with a government contractor and we have opportunities at the place where I work, where we can, you know, expose the kids to a take your child to workday or there's a family day where they can see all the capabilities that we have, you know, around the world.
But. Through, through where I work and having that tool and then being able to show them that it's, it's not too late to go achieve something new and going to school was always something that I felt was really important to me. I just kept convincing myself that, you know, I didn't take that opportunity to graduate high school and go straight to college. I've never lived in a dorm room, so sending my son to college in a dorm, I had to like ask people like, do I buy curtains? Do I like, what do I do? But also showing them that like, it doesn't have to look the same way as everybody else because I am. I'm supposed to meet my own expectations, not someone else's expectations.
So if I set my expectations as high as I can, then that's what I'm working towards and I have the strength already. I don't have to go find it somewhere. I don't need someone else to give it to me. I just need to find the resources. I need to find the drive. And as long as you have whatever lights that fire inside you. Then you can just go for it. Like, not the wor not what's the worst that can happen, but what's the best that can happen? So it, in 2023 I had, of course my two oldest were graduating high school. I graduated, I forced myself to do the grad walk, even though I am a closet introvert, revert. Um, I did, yay. Thank you.
I did not wanna go walk in front of people on camera, have them announce my name. Everything about that is something that like makes my stomach turn, but my kids know that I'm like that. And I was like, you know what? What if I can show them? What if I can show them that I can do it even though they know that it is so out of my comfort zone? But where are you gonna build your strength from? Where are you gonna get new opportunities if you aren't willing to push a little bit outside of your comfort zone? You know, you have to have faith in that for yourself.
Nathan James:
Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing modeling, right? Because like you said, they knew, oh, even going to a place where, where a spotlight was gonna be on you when you're crossing the stage. Oh my goodness. Look at mom. Yes, she's loving this. Right? Um, but they're love, they get to see you pushing your comfort zone, and of course, you know, they get to follow in your footsteps.
Amanda Clark:
I, I made it worse on myself. I gave my son the, the stole of gratitude. Um. I wrote something on it, and of course he said something to the effect of, why are you making yourself cry even more? And you know, I've, I've told him, I said, you are like, you were a pivotal moment in my life, like at my motivation for being successful as a mom, as an individual, even working on myself through a lot of the struggles with. Loss with abuse, with mental health, with assault. Like any of those things that I've been through in the past, I could very easily say, Hey, this happened to me.
You know, I am, yeah, I, I have a rough time. I can't, I can't do more. Um, or I can say, Hey, this happened to me. I can share my story, hopefully inspire others because. If somebody in the position I was in when I was young can hear that you can do it, no matter what has happened in the past, um, then that makes it worth going outside the comfort zone and sharing the story.
Nathan James:
Okay. Now, um, you are a strong mental health advocate, right? So following those lines, I, I know. As you've, I think, alluded to, you've had serious challenges happen where, um, out of that, and you've been open about this, you know, uh, you've had to wrestle with PTSD as candidly as you're, you know, able and willing. Um, could you, let's explore what led to that PSD and, um, what led to those challenges and, and how you overcame.
Amanda Clark:
Sure. Um, so, so high school was really, um. Really difficult for me in terms of like having friends and finding people, um, that could really support me. And like I said, I wasn't really leaning on myself, I was leaning on other people for that. But in that kind of, um, getting lost looking for, um, attention and those kinds of things, I, I dated a few people that, uh, didn't, didn't treat me very well. Um, and. The year before I left, I believe, um, I experienced an assault with people I knew. So having that happen and then getting pregnant within the next year or so, uh, with my boyfriend at the time, and then losing him, um, I. Looked for therapy, uh, mental health therapy, and I've, I've talked with quite a few therapists over, over my, my years. Um, but that's really where we first started talking about, um, anxiety, PTSD, um, all kinds of things that I was experiencing symptoms of. And. I kind of grew up where, you know, if you sought mental health help or you talked to a therapist, then are you crazy?
Like if you take medication, are, are you crazy? No, I am a firm believer now, and I will, um, say it to no end that I think everybody could benefit from a therapist. Um, and I never want to stop talking to my therapist. Um, he's a gem. But over the years with, um, the mention of PTSD and some of those, um, some of those symptoms led into an an anxiety disorder, uh, where I was having panic attacks. I was in the hospital all the time thinking I was gonna die, and very scary, very terrifying in the moment. Um, but having the fears that I had, um, and just kind of compiling that with no way to manage it. Was really difficult. So through the help of, um, therapist, I took some medications at one point to kind of help me just calm down and learn more.
Um, I had a doctor that told me if you learn more about what you're experiencing and what you're afraid of, then it'll help you kind of overcome it. And you know, I sitting there thinking, I don't wanna know more about what scares me. I wanna know less about it because I wanna be less scared. But in learning more about what scared me, being introverted, not liking public speaking, uh, not liking to fly, I was afraid of storms. So I had a really difficult time controlling myself, so I didn't scare my children. If there was a storm outside, that doctor knew what she was talking about because the more I researched storms and flying and, uh, the more I started stepping outside of the comfort zone for speaking in front of others, sharing my story, really owning my whole story. Is what motivates me to push myself to do things like this and share, because I want to own every piece of my story. I don't wanna hide the things that people judge, and I've been there, I've been. Badly, badly judged, um, comments, all kinds of stuff for things in my life. And I am finally, I feel so empowered at a point where I can say I own it all. Like this is part of who I am. And if someone judges that, that's, that's on them. That has nothing to do with me. I've built my success, maybe taking the most difficult paths at some points in life. Um, but I've built my success and kept my motivation through it and. It's, it's gotten me to where I am now.
Nathan James:
You went into therapy and you pursued these methods when it wasn't really popular to do so there was a stigma against that type of care. I was curious as to, um, did anyone encourage you to do that? I mean, you're going uphill to do that, right? So what did it take for you to actually pursue that care in the first place while basically going upstream?
Amanda Clark:
I think it was a lot of really, I worked with a number of therapists and it's really important to find the right fit for you. Because it's not just like a therapist is a therapist is the therapist. You have to have somebody that will truly listen and guide you and and give you what you need to work on yourself as an individual and really give you the space to speak up and say like, Hey, I'm not okay with this yet, or I don't wanna talk about this yet. Or, you know, would you like to, um, insert some faith into your therapy? Sure, I would. Or, hey, today I'm, I'm not really on good terms with God, so I don't really wanna talk about it today. Um, and never feeling judged. Um. It's important to talk, talk with somebody who never makes you feel judged for anything you're saying.
I mean, my, uh, the, the current person that I speak with is one of the people that I have told the most details about some of the worst times of my life, and I felt so much better afterwards. Um, and was completely surprised because a lot of it is, I don't wanna relive these terrible moments. Like I don't, I don't want to talk about the details of these things that traumatize me, but talking about them with someone that you're safe with, completely safe with is so important. Um, and especially working in, you know, an industry now where, you know, people are getting security clearances. There are a lot of people who will not pursue jobs where clearances are required because they don't wanna have to divulge mental health issues or because they feel like they won't be selected or they won't get a clearance with mental health issues.
And that's also like something that people think that's not necessarily true. There are so many. Ways that, you know, the government and people sponsoring clearances, um, will listen and understand and take things into consideration for mental health. You just have to be willing to share, and sometimes that's hard, but sometimes sharing is what gets you further on your journey, right?
Nathan James:
Through these challenges and through. Getting your education right and you're working at the same time, raising your kids, um, figuring out, okay, what's the next step going to look like, you know, career-wise. Um, I want, I wanna look at that just a little bit because one, you, as far as your dreams, you had thought of being a teacher eventually, uh, early on, and then, uh. You know, your priority becomes making sure you're raising a family the way that you want to, so you choose accounting. Right. Um, and ultimately, I, I was curious as to what did you end up finishing your bachelor's degree with, for example, and where has that led you now as far as what you do for your career?
Amanda Clark:
So my, um, I do security work and my bachelor's was cybersecurity management and policy. So I really wanted to, um, touch on the management and policy portions of it because I was looking into moving into a leadership role. Um, ask me five years ago, I would've told you that I am never gonna be a manager. I'm never gonna supervise anyone. Then add in a difficult supervisor, and I got that motivation. I finished up my degree in 2023, the beginning of 2023. Then the beginning of 2024, I was actually offered a, um, leadership. It was a temporary leadership role, but it was a six month leadership role, uh, within my organization. And that really gave me, I feel like that built right off of, you know, finishing up this degree. And I could just put some of that knowledge directly to youth, um, in terms of my job. Now getting a taste of that leadership for six months. Now I have that new fire inside that's like, okay, how can I continue? How can I keep this momentum going? Um, because that's what it's about, right? You don't, you keep the momentum going. You find what lights your fire, and you just go with it because every individual deserves that. Um, no matter who they are, where they came from, what they experienced, um, you can turn your life around at any moment.
It's not fair to judge other people when you don't know everything that they've been through. But having my, my journey with with UMGC and finishing up my degree when my older two were, were graduating was just incredible. Um, will it stop there? Probably not. Um, my kids joke because of the difference. In ages. I have a middle schooler and I have a preschooler, so my kids have all joked that I finished my bachelor's by the time the oldest two graduated high school. Now I can finish my master's by the time the middle schooler graduates, and then I can finish my PhD by the time the 3-year-old graduates, and then they're gonna call me Dr. Mom.
Nathan James:
So, okay. Dr. Mom.
Amanda Clark:
Yes, Dr. Mom. Um, but I mean, even the fact that we have that conversation, like it's with my kids and sitting around talking about that and joking about, Hey mom, what are you gonna do next? Hey, mom, as you enrolled, again, it's inspiring that they are just. Not only comfortable talking about that, but also inspired by what I've done and what I've shown them I can do. Because now being the mom of, you know, two kids that are in college and then I've already talked about college with my middle schooler, my 3-year-old talks about her oldest two siblings being in college. So it's just. That is. So it's something that my kids are growing up with being a normal narrative to talk about college, and I've shown them that it doesn't necessarily have to be on campus in a dorm room. You know, it can be at, you know, 1130 at night trying to get an assignment in by 1159 for UMGC and. Pumping myself with coffees and chai lattes.
Nathan James:
Hey, I like a, a chai latte, right? Chai latte it through some of those refinements.
Amanda Clark:
I was 1158. I was like, all right, I'm posting. And then time for bed and get up and rinse, rinse, repeat. Right?
Nathan James:
Okay, so, so I, I might have to start calling you Dr. Mom, the future doctor, mom here. Now, Dr. Mom, uh, question for you, like you talked about leadership, I. Right. I wanna focus on that, right? Because you've learned some valuable leadership lessons even with right after graduating. Um, first of all, I just wanna comment how great it's that you've led by example, your kids, right, creating this culture of continuous learning and pushing your comfort zone. Um, can you talk to us about, uh, what you've learned about on your journey of leadership? Having been someone where that wasn't a comfort zone for you, right? Leadership wasn't a comfort zone for you, but here you are pushing through and becoming an impactful leader. Uh, what's that journey been like for you, especially for folks listening who can relate and are nervous to take that step themselves?
Amanda Clark:
I think, uh, what's important to me is, like I mentioned before, learning that you have everything already within you. Um, you just have to find that fire and what motivates you and run with it. I didn't believe in myself for the longest time and then experiencing some poor leadership, uh, years ago is really what inspired me to, it's to be better for a team and to make sure that anyone who's on my team working under my leadership. Or within my, my leadership, I don't want them to feel the way I felt ever. It's almost like when I was younger, if I, if I had someone that shared that paid attention, that listened, that supported me. All of those things are important for success. Even success as an individual, um, can grow in a team setting.
So even. In my leadership role, trying, trying out leadership, after I was offered some leadership training through work, it was really important to me to make improvements for the team as well as myself because regardless of whether I stay in a role where I'm leading others. I want them to feel supported. I want them to learn to lean on each other. I want different personalities to learn to work together because you, you go to school when you're young and you think the drama and all that stuff is just a young school thing, and then you, you grow up, you get older and you realize, hey, it's still here. And being a leader on a team, for me, it's important to lead from within. Like, I want my whole team to succeed. I wanna succeed with them. I don't wanna lead from above. I don't want anybody to feel left out or unheard. And if you ask anyone that knows me, I will, um, sing the praises. That communication is one of the key things you need for success. So working on communication, being an over communicator rather than being an an under communicator is gonna be so important.
It's gonna be like life changing. And the worst part, which ends up being the best part, is talking about the things that are uncomfortable. If you have a problem, you need to speak up for yourself and for everybody else. Not speaking up, just lets it continue and nothing changes if nothing changes. So, you know, that's really, I struggled with speaking up for myself mostly because of my con, my lack of confidence, my self-esteem, um, and really being that introvert that would just convince myself like. No, I don't wanna do it. I don't want people to look at me. I don't wanna talk in front of people. What if I say something wrong? What if they judge me? And then you create that narrative that's just like not true. And most of the time what you're telling yourself, especially with anxiety, you tell yourself something that's not true. So you can keep yourself safe. If you push yourself a little bit outside of that, yeah, it might be uncomfortable, but you also get so empowered. Like when you do succeed, it's like I said, what's the best that can happen. So what's the best that can happen? If you push yourself outside of your comfort zone, you can succeed. You can find more things that motivate you, that really get you going, and you can inspire others. Um, because. Like I mentioned before, if one person can hear my story and believe in themselves just a little bit more and have that faith then. They can do anything they wanna do.
Nathan James:
So well said. So well said. Amanda. Thank you, uh, for being on with us, uh, even pushing your own comfort zone, I'm sure to some degree to, to be on this podcast. Next thing you know, you're gonna be speaking in front of thousands of people who knows, who knows what the next stage is.
Amanda Clark:
My son already joked with me this morning. He's gonna have a college watch party. I said, please don't do that. But I mean, hey, if. If that one person that needs to hear it is there, then, then I'm glad I did it. So.
Nathan James:
That's a shout out to your son, uh, and your family. Um, and, but thank you again. Thank you for being on with us. We appreciate it so much. And, uh, to our audience, right? Everybody watching, everyone listening, um, best wishes to you. I really hope that you enjoyed and took something from this. Um, and please remember to like and subscribe, uh, for more unstoppable stories that are already on the way. Thanks everybody.